[Announce] Times Union Saratoga Landfill

Fri Jan 18 22:59:31 MST 2008

Don't forget folks, there's a glut of landfill space in this  
country.  You may recall one of my blog posts from over a year ago  
(Oct. 22 06) where I quote from Allied Waste's 2004 annual report:

"We have a network of 166 owned or operated active landfills with  
operating lives ranging from 1 to over 150 years. Based on available  
capacity using annual volumes, the average life of our landfills  
approximates 36 years."

But that raises an interesting question.  Why does it cost NYC $263  
per ton to dispose of garbage if there's a glut of space?  It can't  
be that expensive merely because of the cost of transportation.   
Something else is going on here.

Still, assuming that figure is accurate, it seems like that would  
make a good argument why old Jerry Jennings wanted the Coeymans dump  
so badly.  With his history of undercutting dump fees, it shouldn't  
be hard to add up two and two here.  And barges on the Hudson are  
probably even more efficient than trains.  I believe he intended to  
close Rapp Road - he said as much.  He had no reason to keep it open  
when he had a real money maker coming on line down in Coeymans.

Such policies are so much easier than fiscal responsibility.

-Dan VR

On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:12 AM, James Travers wrote:

> Andy wrote: "I honestly don't see Albany's tipping rates much lower  
> then the industry standard rates -- if any thing Albany is trying  
> to compete in a futile battle for a slice of the global
> trash market."
>
> Andy, you should better research the subject before posting such  
> misleading information.
>
> It is absolutely untrue that Albany's cut-rate price of $38, which  
> they charged Allied per ton as a tipping fee, is not much lower  
> than the industry standard.
>
> In fact, it is one-half of the median or average price being  
> charged as a tipping fee in New York State. (This was accurate as  
> of 2006)
>
> "The median dumping fee in the state is $75 a ton, and at Colonie  
> it is $57 a ton."
>
> "In New York state, the median dumping fee is $75 a ton, according  
> to Chartwell Information Publishers, a San Diego-based trade  
> publication."  (This was accurate as of 2006, when cost were lower  
> than they are now)
>
> New York City is being charged more than $200 a ton to have their  
> waste hauled to landfills and incinerators.
>
> "According to Department of Sanitation figures, it now costs the  
> city $263 a ton to dispose of garbage... "
> (Newsday 11-19-06)
>
> Albany has undercut the going market price in order to maximize the  
> flow of garbage into the Rapp Road Landfill from distant places far  
> beyond the ANSWERS consortium communities.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> andy at nycowboy.org wrote:
>
> I honestly don't see Albany's tipping rates much lower then
> the industry standard rates -- if any thing Albany is trying
> to compete in a futile battle for a slice of the global
> trash market. Albany is playing a game little different then
> the commodity dairyman. They are trying to increase
> production, trying to get enough of a margin to stay afloat
> in the trash business.
>
> Trash is a commodity much like milk. You don't need a dairy
> farm next door if you want milk -- much less even anywhere
> in your community. Likewise, you don't need a dump next door
> if you want to get trash. You simply send trash to the
> cheapest mega-facility that can produce the service of trash
> disposal at the lowest possible cost. That's how free
> markets work.
>
> Saratoga is playing the commodity game in a smart way.
> They're idling their landfill, hoping for a day when it
> actually pays to operate a landfill when trash disposal
> prices go up to a high enough price to be truly profitable
> for the amount of land and problems it will cause the
> community. Of course, that will probably happen about as
> soon as it get profitable to be in the dairy industry
> (probably never again, especially as waste export to China
> becomes more popular).
>
> Albany has a moral imperative only to operate a landfill
> only for wastes actually produced and generated in county
> boundaries, ie. leaves, brush, local farm and sewage waste
> that has never crossed county lines. Otherwise, for
> everything else, we are just importing garbage, and taking
> care of somebody else's problems. Most products where
> imported from outside of the county anyways. There are after
> all, no pulp and paper factories in Albany County.
>
> Fuel costs for waste industry is tiny -- particularly with
> train and large ship exports. Semi trucks might become too
> expensive, but compared to everything else we move on
> freight trains, trash is a *VERY* tiny commodity. Remember,
> we are moving 15x more coal a year on trains every year then
> we generate in solid waste as a country. Freight trains are
> amazingly efficient at moving lots of products with little
> carbon production, particularly compared to semi-truck.
>
> > Nice to read in today's Times Union that Saratoga County
> > has an empty landfill that is not being used while a third
> > of their garbage goes to Albany or Colonie. Most likely -
> > Albany! Garbage from Saratoga, Greene and Schenectady
> > Counties used to be listed in Albany's quarterly reports
> > but they stopped filling in this section of the report to
> > DEC about 2002 or 2003. Are the resident in Saratoga
> > County paying more? HIgher gas prices - well between that
> > and a low bulk deal for private haulers makes Albany quite
> > attractive and would offset any travel cost increases.
> > Is Albany's low tipping fee subsidizing their garbage
> > bill?
> >
> > Would Saratoga County allow haulers from the ANSWERS
> > community send garbage when their landfill opens and the
> > Pine Bush is paved over with garbage?
> >
> >
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>
> Thanks Andy.
>
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